The Nature of Second Chances
There’s a lively discussion happening on Twitter regarding giving certain MMORPG’s, namely Age of Conan, a second chance. I’m not sure of everyone who’s in the discussion, so I’ll try to get the main points out from the two most vocal ones on opposite sides of the discussion.
OpenEdge believes that people who left during the opening months of Age of Conan should give it a second chance, as the game in its current incarnation has vastly improved, according to him. Pitrelli, on the other hand, feels that if a game has failed you once, then it shouldn’t be given a second chance. (Of course, please note that this is a generalization of the extremely long conversation they had on Twitter, so if any of you have a better way of summing things up, let me know. )
Now, I have a very weird history with MMORPG’s, as almost all of the MMO’s I’ve played, I’ve played them for some length of time WAAAAAAY after launch day, with the exception of a small handful of games. WoW, I played a year after release. LOTRO, I only started last year. Fallen Earth, I couldn’t get to run at all during trial so it doesn’t count. EQ2, only this year. The two I played on launch and eventually abandoned were Age of Conan, and Warhammer Online.
Let’s focus on Age of Conan at launch though. AOC in its original form had perhaps one of the BEST battle systems in an MMO. I enjoyed it thoroughly and was not bored when I was in a fight (I’ve been known to yawn during battles, so sue me). It also sported one of the most polished newbie experiences out there in the form of Tortage.
Unfortunately, almost everything after Tortage felt like a bait-and-switch. Gone were the voice-overs for quests. Gone was the coherent storyline that came with Tortage. Gone was the sense of direction you had when you played. Worst of all… Stats had no meaning, so despite my changing outfits, they did not matter!
I leveled up a Guardian during the two weeks I played, and got it up to 40. It was surprising that I leveled up so fast, because by the time I hit 80, I wouldn’t have been two months old. Eventually I left because despite the great battles, there wasn’t much else to feed my need for adventure, and for a game subtitled “Hyborian Adventures,” that would make it a terrible misnomer.
Right now, OpenEdge is listing down or linking various changes since launch that have occurred to AOC, and it seems that something must have clicked for the people at Funcom, who seem to have been hard at work during the year that I’ve been ignoring AOC. Stats have been made relevant, guilds have levels, PVP has been improved, and I’ve heard you can still kick people off cliffs with horses.
While Everquest 2 has my time at present, I do feel that people in general deserve a second chance to redeem themselves. Launches are never as smooth as they happen to be, even for big companies, and I wish ill on very few entities, so I’m inclined to offer the game some of my time in exchange for a brand new experience. AOC might not be the game for me, but if I can get back into the game for cheap when the GodSlayer expansion comes out, perhaps I’ll see what’s changed by running a Guardian through the content again.
Of course, if some of those niggling problems still remain in the game, like it being unplayable because you had certain hardware (My friend experienced this), then it’s war I tell you.
elandarex
Victor Stillwater
Ok nice post vic and hey I respect your opinion
As discussed on twitter my main issues with AoC and other recent releases is the honey trap prior to launch that is used to bait customers in, in other words the dev team spout a lot of crap and promise chocolate and warm milk but deliver a serving of gruel and stagnant water then wonder why half the player base up and leave.
Now first months in MMOs are famous for being rough and can almost be viewed as acceptable for some but 4-5 months down the line like I was in AoC you would be hoping that things would look brighter right?!…………. *ahem*
Its this simple if you do not deliver what you promise then people will pack up and move on, in my case I was quite stubborn with AoC and stayed for a good while with the promise of ‘that special patch’ fixing all the graphical errors, memory leaks and hey even making broken instances playable…… it didn’t come and enough was enough. So roughly £80 pumped in to the game by me on what I view as false promises.
Roll on another few months and the game is at the state it should have launched in, should people who suffered through launch be expected to forgive and forget the crap they put up with at launch? I mean does a company who treated its opening players at launch with such contempt deserve another shot? Hell does anyone who releases a sub par game deserve another shot? In my opinion no. It is akin to stealing in my opinion.
I think MMO devs need to understand there is no second bite at the cherry in the MMO world. A lot of gamers are like myself i.e. if you f$%^ me about I wont back you.
I’ll be giving ‘Funcon’ the benefit of the doubt for TSW but that’s as far as I’ll go me thinks.
I understand your sentiment.
I think the main issue in your case is that you stuck with it and grew disillusioned because the fabled patch you were waiting for didn’t come when it was supposed to. That would definitely leave a bad taste in anyone’s mouth, for sure.
If I give it a try and find it to have changed in leaps and bounds since launch, would you consider joining me in a post-tortage killing spree?
I dont think so purely because thinking about a possible return brought up all the issues I left for. Will the game have changed and improved? yes I have no doubts about it but do I really need to see it for myself? Nope.
Returning would imo send out the wrong message to Funcom in that its okay to release a dreadful product and (very)slowly correct it to what it should have been at launch.
Now people can paint it up however they want and indeed bring out the tired line ‘WoW had a rough 4 months etc etc’ but things need to be taken into context its certainly not 2004 and technology and experience has moved on. Also Im doubtful AoC had over 4 million players trying to log on at the same time.
Anyway getting away from tit for tat and comparing. Funcom flat out lied about its content and situation before release and for that they deserve nothing.
“Returning would imo send out the wrong message to Funcom in that its okay to release a dreadful product and (very)slowly correct it to what it should have been at launch.”
But then you said you had hope for The Secret World right? If so, then you still want to give Funcom some kind of a chance to win back your money, I think.
It’s okay to have strong opinions and to dislike things, but to not have the flexibility to change our mind when we see that something in the other entity has changed too… that, to me, seems like folly.
Just a thought.
No TSW is a different game and project altogether. I am willing to see if they can learn from their mistakes. Put it this way I wont be buying TSW at launch.
As I said I am a bitter guy about AoC no doubts about it but I know plenty who are in the same boat.
To give you an idea of Funcom, they were trying to get people to subscribe to 3 months of AoC to be guarenteed a beta pass for TSW. Desperation much?
@Pitrelli
You said
“I am willing to see if they can learn from their mistakes”
Wait. So, they could not learn from their mistakes on the AoC launch, but can for TSW?
That sounds like a two sided argument with yourself.
I understand your hatred of AoC, as like I said, I left because I was not happy. On my return, I saw they HAD learned…
Yet, I gave LOTRO six months, and felt they did not make any advancements. But… I was willing to go back to a game that made my wife quit MMO’s for over a year, as SHE hated it even more. Why? Because I kept reading over and over…”It had improved”.
Like you said, we have opinions. But yours is weak actually, as you are stating you will go back to a company for another “untested” game and believe they can learn, but will not go back for a game that is already tested, and has a wide approval rating of “making progress” (you can find many a review out there stating “Most improved game” of 2009)
Really, this is all a moot argument when a free trial is available now, so I also do not see why you cannot attempt to run that and see if there has been a change (and not a “Well I played 3 levels and it sucks” trial).
http://ageofconan.com/trial/
Better yet…why not go play, so you too can write a blog post like I did about LOTRO stating “Told ya so”…
I dare ya!
The free trial point isnt an issue, I played and loved the Tortage area so there wouldnt be anything new to me revisiting it. If you were indeed there at launch you would understand that is why players were outraged – They zoned out from a nice stable polished Tortage area to some pretty much unplayable zones. Again I will say I EXPECT these issues have been dealt with, what I am saying is the time they took to fix them is an absolute disgrace.
One of the main ones I remember was the pyramid instance that was completely unfinished at launch (think it was a level 30 or so dungeon) – 4 months on and it was still bugged and unplayable.
My arguement isnt ‘weak’ as you put it at all, I invested in a project (AoC) and was badly let down after some months where I chose to stop backing them. Now a year later they have got it to the standard that it should have been at launch and everyone is praising them?! sorry but they stole my money for that game so I cant and wont praise them for getting their finger out.
As for the TSW, I said I would play it I did not say I would invest into it at launch, much like dealing with Cryptic I’ve found the best way is to take a step to the sidelines and see how the game develops over the first month then see how they deal with any problems the second month.
If you are going to try to criticise someones opinion you should at least read and try to understand what they are saying.
Fair enough. I am not criticizing, but questioning your motives…
So, if I am to understand this correctly, you will not purchase the box of TSW, and instead wait however long it takes for a trial? Or, will you, if upon reading a good review, buy a box then?
Basically you will not touch the game until it is free to try. Or will you take a chance and “invest” in a box based on reviews.
As to your continued comments about what happened, it is like blaming the current administration for the War the previous administration started.
My point is there was changes. Funcom was also not blind to what was happening. They let that Game Director go as they knew things were not being fixed.
See how that works? They knew the game had a chance, but not going the way it was. They knew it needed to be fixed.
Look at Anarchy Online? After the change of GD, all of a sudden the reviews gave it high kudos.
Thus, it should be the same for a player. You, for example, had a bad result…but, with a previous administration.
Just as you stated earlier, TSW is a different Game Dev and set of developers, and AoC is in all actuality, the same thing.
I am sure this is all going on deaf ears, but the fact remains, all the things you are saying for TSW is actually true for AoC. New direction, new gameplay.
Big difference between the launch game and the current game.
But, I have said enough now. If you are so stubborn to let something bother you for this long (that was almost 2 years ago now) and cannot read about all the changes, and the various reviews about how well they have done, then nothing will ever change your mind anyways.
Good luck.
Your right nothing will change my mind like many others who bought into the AoC hype and like me invested months into building a guild and try to get the game running without the support of the devs. They have changed devs …….. Woooo bloody hooo about time but sorry it cant erase the bitter taste in my mouth.
Again concerning TSW you havent read what I have said. No where did I say I’d wait for a free trial, I will watch launch from the outside, see what issues they have and how they deal with them (via blogosphere, official forums and patch notes)i.e. if it launches in the state AoC did and they do nothing about it then I wont buy the box. Simples.
Also ‘Big difference between the launch game and the current game.’ Thats what I would hope, however with AoC it became apparent that the game had not changed a hell of alot within 5 months i.e. stability issues and memory leaks (major issues) still remained. How long exactly are you supposed to give them?
If everyone was like you and left after 30 free days AoC wouldnt even be be around these days which is worth keeping in mind.
I’ll agree to disagree and thats my final say on it.
I see Pitrelli’s point, but maybe it is also that I knew to walk immediately. I felt no dying need to give my funds to the company at that time, as they were proving that they could not fix the issues. When I read that the GD of Age of Conan had been changed, I gave him a shot. It was worth it to me. The changes were also abundantly clear.
I think it is all based on time and what you wish out of the product.
If a product does not meet my needs, I see no need to continue to support it.
Warhammer Online is another example. I saw no redeeming qualities and left after my 30 days were up. And maybe that is the secret. Going back now thanks to their trial offer made me a believer in that they were committed. Though still not perfect, I saw the changes and felt it was progressing.
On the opposite scale, LOTRO was a game I felt I NEEDED to like, as the license was one of my all time favorites. But, every retrial proved to me that the company was NOT progressing. Nothing changed…
Over and over I kept giving them chances, and I was always disappointed.
So, maybe I wasted my time with LOTRO, but by going back, I learned that I never need to return. As well, I found two games that failed me (WAR and AoC) are ending up being two of my favorite games.
Every game deserves a second chance if something about it initially brought you in.
Hmm… I see your point there. My thinking with LOTRO was that it never really “failed,” so to speak, so it never really had to adapt and make drastic changes to its formula to appeal to other sorts of gamers.
I think people need to get away from the word failed in relation to MMOs one mans trash is another mans gold.
LoTRO is one of the best cases of this, its a very well designed game if you like the game style, lore and setting. It wont be for everyone but I believe they knew that at launch, I wont go as far to say its a niche game but its designed for a specific MMO palete. It has also added content and continues to do so at a very decent rate.
*shrug*
Opinions are like assholes everyone has one and thinks the other guys one stinks